ChimChim's Atheist Thread!

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September 08, 2010, 10:47:31 PM

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[paully1976]

Since when was Hawking an atheist? If you're gonna come at me like that, you should do a little research first. I mean he even talks about God in A Brief History Of Time. While you faked me out on throwing that ball, I typed in a few words and fetched a quote for you... Wikipedia-Hawking has stated that he is "not religious in the normal sense" and he believes that "the universe is governed by the laws of science. The laws may have been decreed by God, but God does not intervene to break the laws."

Now I do understand your point about nihilism and atheism, and you're right... but your grammar sucks and I believe you can list commas along with your fear of oranges and planes.

"God does not play dice with the universe"-Albert Einstein

deism vs theism (both on wikipedia)

many scientists are deists, and refer to "god" in that context

einstein was such a person.  based on the wiki entry about hawkins, he is too.

it's splitting hairs.  it'd be like me saying, "I'm not an atheist, I believe physics is God."

[reverend]

see chim

there are different parts of the world, some that you (the big macho warrior) are comfortable with...

and some you are not (emotions)

Emotions are part of our human experience, and they do play into our growth as humans.  So "spirituality" deals with these issues, where science does not.  If you cannot understand that, they I believe you are being willfully contrary.

rev

[Justin Garcia]

see chim

there are different parts of the world, some that you (the big macho warrior) are comfortable with...

and some you are not (emotions)

Emotions are part of our human experience, and they do play into our growth as humans.  So "spirituality" deals with these issues, where science does not.  If you cannot understand that, they I believe you are being willfully contrary.

rev

I take your compliment with gratitude. Good luck with your emotions, but remember, if you ever need to borrow some nuts, I have about 8! 

[Johnny Bombs]

still no evidence ?

2,000 years have passes and not one thing? 

[reverend]

sorry Johnny I got distracted by the short obese man in the corner.

There is tons of evidence, what evidence are you specifically speaking about?

There is archeological evidence that events in the bible happened, or were dated correctly.

there is evidence that the copies of manuscripts we have are incredibly accurate.

There is evidence that a character named Jesus (mythical, historical, or a mixture of both) inspired a movement that still exists to this day.

There is evidence that forgiveness is very important in relationships, and that not forgiving causes much pain and suffering on the one refusing to forgive

There is evidence that loving your enemies can actually bring peaceful resolution to conflict

There is evidence that there is a creator

I could go on and on, what exactly did you have in mind?

rev

[paully1976]

There is evidence that there is a creator

this one.  the historical accuracy of the bible isnt really being called into question, and the other pieces of evidence are by and large social constructs.

[Justin Garcia]

There is evidence that there is a creator

Oh snap, really?! Please tell us of this revelation that occurred sometime last night!

[leftarmbar]

There's nothing funnier than over passionate atheists. Humans in general need faith, whether it be in belief or unbelief. It's because our makeup is so egocentric; it really has nothing to do with God but more about ourselves being right. It's just comical that people who truly believe in nothing have to tell everybody that they are right. It's as bad as close minded religious zealots.

You are a perfect mixture of smug and retarded.

Since when is atheism nihilism?
Stephen Hawking is an atheist  and I'm fairly sure the nuance and overall scope of his belief in mathematics makes your peanut brained postulations look about as sophisticated as my dog's mental prowess when I pretend to throw the ball and instead hide it behind my back.  


Faith is a requirement for existence because otherwise we would have to retest every assumption we use in our day to day lives. Will an orange kill me? It didn't yesterday but it may today? Will fire burn me, it did yesterday but it may not this time etc etc.  

We then see where faith becomes a requirement for learning and the basis of all mundane experience. 90% of the time this "egocentric" need for faith allows me to board an airplane with out having to receive a run down of proofs for the basic premises of aeronautics because I have faith that the plane will fly based on my prior experience of it doing such.

There are whole books on this subject, it goes a bit further than your moronic anti-atheist zealotry.  

Since when was Hawking an atheist? If you're gonna come at me like that, you should do a little research first. I mean he even talks about God in A Brief History Of Time. While you faked me out on throwing that ball, I typed in a few words and fetched a quote for you... Wikipedia-Hawking has stated that he is "not religious in the normal sense" and he believes that "the universe is governed by the laws of science. The laws may have been decreed by God, but God does not intervene to break the laws."

Now I do understand your point about nihilism and atheism, and you're right... but your grammar sucks and I believe you can list commas along with your fear of oranges and planes.

"God does not play dice with the universe"-Albert Einstein

I'm glad you are able to use wikipedia.

"God does not play dice with the universe"-Albert Einstein

That quote is not about his religious beliefs it's about his scientific beliefs. That quote is often used wrongly by the religious as evidence that he be lived in a God.

We've all been over this a million times.

If you really want to know his position you can read about it. Same for Hawking.

Either way there is no sense in your statement that atheists believe in nothing.

 

[leftarmbar]

see chim

there are different parts of the world, some that you (the big macho warrior) are comfortable with...

and some you are not (emotions)

Emotions are part of our human experience, and they do play into our growth as humans.  So "spirituality" deals with these issues, where science does not.  If you cannot understand that, they I believe you are being willfully contrary.

rev

Rev,

While I don't really agree with Chim's tone, he is right that you make some pretty big leaps in logic. To say that science doesn't "deal" with these issues is just terribly wrong. I don't always like the way science is attempting to do it but they have whole fields such as bio-psychology, evolutionary-psych, psychiatry etc. Also there is, art, music, poetry, literature, philosophy and countless other art forms that "deal" with emotion. It may not be dogmatic or prescriptive in the way you desire but for me they provide much more richness than Christianity has.

I think Chim is mad because sometime it looks like you don't have the same attention to detail in explaining your views as you do in discrediting his.

Also, it is quite possible you just don't care which is a reasonable excuse.

[Justin Garcia]

I'm mad because the last season of Heroes sucked c*ck. Aside from that, the Rev is a great friend but is full of the caca when it comes to his dogmania. And he's a hetero f*g.

[leftarmbar]

I'm mad because the last season of Heroes sucked c*ck. Aside from that, the Rev is a great friend but is full of the caca when it comes to his dogmania. And he's a hetero f*g.

Well Jesus wore a dress but hung around hookers so there is some precedent for the catagory.

[Jeff Wassom]

Classic thread, many fond memories though I think discussing God within any kind of scientific context is a mistake.

Cheers boys, happy to reverend and Chim still going at it with paully wittingly chiming in.

[reverend]

Well the evidence is pretty conclusive

we are here, how could we be here without being created?



The scientifically observable fact that life does not come from non life... ever, shows us that something completely outside of our understanding must have happened.  This is evidence that on some level there was some outside influence.  To assume this outside influence would be inteligent is not necessary for one to acknowledge that there was a creative force, however, I find it a more reasonable explanation than not.
As to my taking the time to work out my own theories, I actually have spent quite a bit of time, but everyone seemed too impatient to let me finish things.

When it comes down to it, I don't feel I spend much time at all attacking Chims reasonings, or stance.  I don't carefully articulate my many reasons for not believing in atheism.  I do spend a lot of time defending misconceptions about Christianity and the bible, and also trying to help people to understand that just because I do not have a "modern fundementalist" approach to epistemology, and the scriptures, does not mean I am not a Christian, and in fact that I am closer to the original understandings of the faith than those fundementalists.

rev

[Johnny Bombs]

thats what i mean Rev ,,,,,,,, all these bible storys happeneed 2,000 years ago

why is it there was hundreds of storys 2,000 + years ago, but not one story in the last 200- 300 years or for that matter last 1,000 years

i want storys !!!!!!!!!

[paully1976]

The scientifically observable fact that life does not come from non life... ever, shows us that something completely outside of our understanding must have happened.  This is evidence that on some level there was some outside influence. 

aaah, the old "we cant possibly know X, therefore God" argument.  the reason folks have a problem with this is because it expects people to make God the reason for X, which can a) hinder further curiosity on the subject or b) mislead people until the real answer is known.  as for "life does not come from nonlife" being scientifically observable, where does this come from??  this assumes an understanding of life (consciousness) that i dont think have.  if you're talking about life in general, like plants and animals, etc, we most certainly come from nonlife.  then we become nonlife.  which turns into life again.

To assume this outside influence would be inteligent is not necessary for one to acknowledge that there was a creative force, however, I find it a more reasonable explanation than not.

This is deism, not theism, which is incompatible with christianity.   i dont think anyone here is denying  a "creative force", be it science or whatever.  but "creative force" is much different than "creator", which is what you say there is evidence for.