Jimmy Pedro Disses BJJ

[Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.Did you miss your activation email?]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

November 20, 2009, 11:07:42 PM

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Advanced search

   

Please contribute to the college fund benefiting Nathan Wager's two children, Little Nate and Madalena.

[Today]

• Richmond, VA Sub Only tou... by Snake-Jitsu [Today at 11:03:02 PM]
• can bill cooper really ma... by goatfury [Today at 11:02:39 PM]
• Cigar Aficionados by USMC_CHUCK [Today at 10:35:08 PM]
• Your Dog(s) by snowflake [Today at 10:21:37 PM]
• Potential Phone Pron by wutang [Today at 09:41:39 PM]

Change Color Black Red Yellow Pink Green Orange Purple Blue Beige Brown Teal Navy Maroon LimeGreen

[more]

Members

• Total Members: 8526
• Latest: carlos74

Stats

• Total Posts: 1180274
• Total Topics: 75435
• Online Today: 111
• Online Ever: 291
• (August 06, 2008, 10:00:28 PM)

Users Online

• Users: 23
• Guests: 52
• Total: 75
• andy ruffner
  Mohawk
  checkyourchest
  JJB
  Yemaso Yankee
  kevin
  Snake-Jitsu
  dkaivani
  coco
  AKEBH
  Ring Girl
  hamoom
  bc_fighter
  fightme
  goatfury
  snowflake
  Pirelli
  rudini
  jayman
  Quatoof
  da BULL
  

NHB GEAR NEWS

Email:

[turkey sandwich]

Jimmy has some good points.  Judo does teach you in more areas then BJJ.  Judo has superb takedowns, and matwork.  But another important fact is Judo teaches you great balance, stamina, and aggression. 

If I had just learned JiuJitsu only, I would not have the speed I got from Judo or the incredible stamina it gave me.  At least back in the day...

Yes Judo is very technical, and it takes time to learn and at the same time, it also thrashes your body.  But think of it this way.  Everyone out there is learning to stuff a Wrestlers take down.  Hardly Anyone Knows how to stuff a Judo throw, which can not be done the same way.

I do understand what Jimmy is talking about... But he is not an MMA guy.  And why not just discuss how important it is to Cross Train?!  Jimmy has good matwork, but he should understand that 95% of the Judo guys out there DONT.  Unless you are near a top Judo School who is teaching the latest Matwork techniques, if not then you are definitely going to need jiujitsu for MMA.

Judo Alone is not the answer to all....  Judo + Jiujitsu you have now covered all your takedowns and matwork.  Add Boxing or Kickboxing and your done.

One more thing.. I’m curious as to how good Jimmy is without a gi.  Has he ever taken a No Gi Judo Class?  The throws are not exactly the same, the matwork is not exactly the same.

I met him at the last grappler's quest in Jersey and shot the s**t while loading mats.  He did wrestle through college, and still seemed to follow the sport. 

[MyBrainItches]

As I have posted this, I have seen many sides of the same view point. Its really funny how the bottom line is Judo should never ever ever be compared to BJJ. You never here Boxers compare themselves to Muy Thai etc. Really all jokes aside I have a stand up background and when i started BJJ it was a total shock to the body and brain. Point is nothing in the world prepares you for a street fight like BJJ. Key things I tell my students everyday I get that question. They ask me " How does this work / help in a real street fight" 1 cardio in BJJ is unmatched we train ti fight and fight and fight and prepare for the black belt level of a 10 min round, and many of those in the same day. 2 we roll/ spar every day with a live body that thinks. So in my mind and having been a bouncer and had street fights nothing works better than a nice rear naked choke. I dont know how Judo works on getting in on a punch but BJJ does just fine. Sorry Mr Pedro but your really off base with your thoughts.

judo players are well conditioned atheletes.  the top atheletes of the sport of judo would rival the top atheletes of sport jiu jitsu when it comes to their investment in conditioning.  to be honest, ive found judo played under match like conditions to be much more exhausting than most of my bjj matches.  judo is a fast sport and it takes considerable wind to be able to push or maintain pace in a judo match.  also, unless training judo at a club that does no randori, the judo player will have ample opportunity to work his technique against unwilling opponents. 

although some of jimmy's statements are bold, i believe he made some good points.  my own pesonal experience has shown that i tend to feel comfortable with ground techniques much faster than i do with standing techniques.  im on the ground..i cant fall any further than that, so im not as troubled by balance issues.  with judo i have to learn the mechanics of the movement as well as figure out how to perform those mechanics w/o falling over myself, therefore it takes much longer for me to feel comfortable w/ those movements.  i believe this point was addressed in the article which is why jimmy said some of the things he did.

and i have to admit, after taking some time to investigate the gripping game utilized in judo, my hand speed has improved as well as my hand eye coordination.  i would think that this would benefit any striker and would merit their spending time to learn judo.

[ArmHunter]

As I have posted this, I have seen many sides of the same view point. Its really funny how the bottom line is Judo should never ever ever be compared to BJJ. You never here Boxers compare themselves to Muy Thai etc. Really all jokes aside I have a stand up background and when i started BJJ it was a total shock to the body and brain. Point is nothing in the world prepares you for a street fight like BJJ. Key things I tell my students everyday I get that question. They ask me " How does this work / help in a real street fight" 1 cardio in BJJ is unmatched we train ti fight and fight and fight and prepare for the black belt level of a 10 min round, and many of those in the same day. 2 we roll/ spar every day with a live body that thinks. So in my mind and having been a bouncer and had street fights nothing works better than a nice rear naked choke. I dont know how Judo works on getting in on a punch but BJJ does just fine. Sorry Mr Pedro but your really off base with your thoughts.

When I was training for the Judo nationals back in the day... My brother and I rolled for 1 hour straight and I remember not even being tired.  Judo is by far better for conditioning.  A 5 minute Judo match is much harder to last in then a 10 minute Jiujitsu match.

[TATAME]

I agree on the Judo cardio.  there is limited, if any stalling.  My most greuling tournament ever was the Va state Blackbelt invitational, I had 9 matches that day.  It took me a week to not be sore and 2 months for all my injuries to heal.   BJJ allows you to stall on the ground & use aerobic training, Judo is anaerobic.......

[AgentCooper]

BJJ allows you to stall on the ground & use aerobic training, Judo is anaerobic

U sure about that one?


How is BJJ aerobic?

[kebam]

BJJ allows you to stall on the ground & use aerobic training, Judo is anaerobic

U sure about that one?


How is BJJ aerobic?

once you reach a certain level you can flow roll for a long time so that might be considered aerobic but that level is pretty far away for people like me.

Every comp I've been or watched has most people gassing to an extent.  using "speed" and explosivness developed by judo is the definition of anaerobic. 

[mikeffd]

Jimmy Pedro's argument seems to be about which style is better for self defense. Would a BJJ pracitioner be able to handle a street situation as effectively and efficiently as a judoka? I'm not sure. Most of the guys I saw at BJJ clubs would not be able to take someone down who was bigger and stronger. I also dont know how many of them would be comfortable handling an aggresor as it's just not something we practiced that much.

[Fallopian Tube]

LOL @ all the close minded jiu-jitsu guys accusing others of being close minded.  The ironing is delicious!

Judo is by far the superior art.  Jacare, Xande, Saulo, Sperry, Marcelo all train or at one time trained Judo.

[SanDaWang]

Pedro wrestled for Brown, where he got his business degree. He stopped competing in Judo for that time period. To Daniel; I would think that would suggest some answers as to how he is 'no gi'. Not the best in the world I'm sure, but lost in the woods? Not likely.

If he seems biased, remember he did compete in like 4 Olympics in this sport, and does make his living off it.
Talk to some BJJ school owners. They are likely to tell you, especially if they are not being interviewed, but rather trying to sell you classes, that BJJ is the best at everything.

In the sense of " I'm gonna do any MA 3xp/wk. What will teach me about all the ranges of combat?"
I'd say " Combat Sambo." You'd then say "they don't have one of those in Averageville, USA." Then I'd say " Ok, then try Judo."
"It covers standing, clinching, throws/takedowns/sweeps, pins, positional dominance, armbars and chokes"

Goat: Turtling? Very true. Butt scooting? Better in a mugging? Both SPORTS have non-functional elements as they relate to self defense.

If you really want to obsess over self-defense, go to Israeli Ninja school with all the other dorks who prefer gun shows and anime. I will compromise with my 'sport'.

As regards Judoka being closeminded? Pretty true. But the burden of proof is on all the other martial arts that aren't Olympic Sports. That's an incomplete response, but there's some truth to it. Again, anyone who wants to be great at something tends to specialize, and that narrowing of focus tends to narrow the mind.

As regards conditioning; The best in any sport are going to be pretty good. But given the scale, competition and international possibilities, it should be obvious that there are more elite judoka out there that can go harder longer in almost all measure of athleticism.
If you think that practicing each is the same, go to a top and tough club for each, and see how you hang. Many will walk away saying that Judo is tougher aerobically, anaerobically, bruises and sprains, and psychologically (common BJJ duder, let's do some stand up, let's get you thrown on your head over and over again).

And last but not least: This was for Black Belt Magazine. Not the BBC. You don't think they chose certain things he said to make the article exciting? You don't think that they sensationalized his comments? He's an intelligent guy, and I've heard people involved in both sports say that he's game. Like he'll jump on the floor and learn some choke thing that everybody's talking about.

[wutang]

BJJ allows you to stall on the ground & use aerobic training, Judo is anaerobic

U sure about that one?


How is BJJ aerobic?

once you reach a certain level you can flow roll for a long time so that might be considered aerobic but that level is pretty far away for people like me.

Every comp I've been or watched has most people gassing to an extent.  using "speed" and explosivness developed by judo is the definition of anaerobic. 

Even as you get better it's an anaerobic workout. "Flowing" is a type of training, not all of training is that way. BJJ, overall, is a anaerobic workout.

[papertrail]

LOL @ all the close minded jiu-jitsu guys accusing others of being close minded.  The ironing is delicious!

Judo is by far the superior art.  Jacare, Xande, Saulo, Sperry, Marcelo all train or at one time trained Judo.

 
 These guys decided to devote most of their life to training an inferior art then?

Judo is effective. BJJ is effective.  But I'd rather judo throw a guy on concrete rather than trying to pull guard in a street fight.

Right tool for the right job.

[kebam]

BJJ allows you to stall on the ground & use aerobic training, Judo is anaerobic

U sure about that one?


How is BJJ aerobic?

once you reach a certain level you can flow roll for a long time so that might be considered aerobic but that level is pretty far away for people like me.

Every comp I've been or watched has most people gassing to an extent.  using "speed" and explosivness developed by judo is the definition of anaerobic. 

Even as you get better it's an anaerobic workout. "Flowing" is a type of training, not all of training is that way. BJJ, overall, is a anaerobic workout.

that was my point, I just didn't explain it well.  There are times when doing a type of training it might be considered aerobic but anytime you step it up even a little it is mostly anaerobic.

[Macaco_Louco]

I think you guys are taking this a little out of context.  Dont think he ment anything bad buy it, there are many situations in MMA where a person well skilled in any art can say why doesnt he do this or that, Karo hit the UFC and has done well only because no one in the UFC has good judo. It is like when Royce started, no one knew UFC. Karo doesnt even have good judo. They say he was a Olympic this and that but the best he ever did was a 3rd int he Senior Nationals, that is a far cry from even the Olympic Trials.

Here is the thing, BJJ is supposed to be the most well rounded form, if you are training right and are a BB that means you should be deadly from everywhere. Wrestling, throws, guard, passing, leg locks, half guard etc. Everywhere, so in BJJ if you arent, you are one dimensional in my eyes. Think I am kidding, look at all the BJJ guys with Judo BB's or who have really started training hard  in judo to help there BJJ.....Leo Viera has a BB in Judo, Jacare has a BB in Judo, Roger has been traiing his ass off lately in Judo, Saulo and Xande train Judo, a significant number of BJJ Black belts, the world calss guys have great wrestling and or judo. You will never be a world class player other wise.

I am a Brown belt in BJJ, judo took my game to a whole new level. The gripping alone was enough to give me a edge on alot of competition. In BJJ judo is the key to success I think in sub grappling good wrestling is. But having both is obviously the best.

People are making comments about this and that saying Id like to see so-and-so beat this guy etc. It would be 100 times easier and take a world class judo player and make him a world class BJJ guy than it would to take a world class BJJ player and make him a World Class Judo guy. Id bet better than 8 out of 10 times world class judo guy turned BJJ could be a World Champion with at best three years of BJJ training at any belt where three years of judo for a world class BJJ guy would 1 in 500 produce a Judo world champion.

fact is they are the same sport with little changes. Reguardless if you train either sport you should be training your mat work and your throws and take downs. Pedro's judo spends alot of time on the mat, they dont cover stuff like undoing the gu and wrapping it around and stuff like that cause you cant do it in judo, it fosters progressive movement and action. but for a judo club, they do a insane amount of mat work.

Judo is harder on the body than BJJ, it is alot like wrestling in its way way more agressive, there is no stalling, and I doubt there are many BJJ guys that could do a "Real" judo event, not some local hack show, but one with real judo guys there that would make it out of the first round, after their first match, they would be exausted. Ive been there and I have good BJJ.

The article I think shows the importance of cross training, if you are a bjj guy you need judo and wrestling if you ever wanna be a world class champion. If you are a Judo guy, training BJJ will take your judo ground game to the next level too. If you are in the UFC you need good judo, good bjj, boxing, thai boxing, wrestling, and great cardio to be the fighter of the future, cause that is where the sport is heading if not already there, BJJ and judo are the same way. If you consider yourself world class at either then you have great take downs and great ground work, if you dont you arent world class rather have one part of your sport that you are great at. Its like being  quarter back that can throw the ball 100 yards but couldnt hit the side of a freight truck let alone a player.  You need to be well rounded. Thats where our sport is going.

For the record, I have rolled with world champion BJJ black belts and I have rolled with Jimmy, the really good guys its hard to say, its hard to rate one ass kicking from another, but Ive rolled with others and even beat some too, and Jimmy is a world class player and he hasnt trained seriously in years, I couldnt even imagine him at his prime.

[h2otiburon]

Macaco Louco,

Get well man. Hope everything is going well with the school, you should come visit. I heard you are taking a vacation to Florida. Let me know.

 I agree with 99% of what you say, but I really dislike Judo rules.

For example:

-If the guy bends over too much that's negative judo.
-Fryling Armbars to dangerous lets not do them.
-Leg Locks Too dangerous lets not do them.
-Cross Grip to good of a grip only allow to hold for 3 second
-Some grips are just to hard to break lets make it illegal...
-If you take the guys back make sure not to place your hand on his forehead or face when doing a RNC...because thats also illegal
-Judo rules are not very rewarding for very effective wrestling take downs.
-and i don't even want to comment about the turtle.

Judo World Championships are hard, so are the Olympics terr is no doubt in that. BJJ World championships are hard as well. We have great athletes here in the US training with Judo and BJJ Intensively and still not even placing!

I do not agree with:

"the Id bet better than 8 out of 10 times world class judo guy turned BJJ could be a World Champion with at best three years of BJJ training at any belt where three years of judo for a world class BJJ guy would 1 in 500 produce a Judo world champion."

I think the different rule sets  impose a lot of challenges and the ratios more balanced than 4/5 to 1/500. 

I do believe like you that cross training is essential, but Judo has a bunch of throws that do not apply to BJJ because they can leave you in very dangerous situations.


I personally feel Judo has a very limited rule set while BJJ a more free one which is why I left Judo for BJJ.  The other reason is that JUDO in the us is terrible. Its hard to find a good quality judo program. Jimmy Pedro has one for sure but that's very rare.

Finally I do agree that they are the same thing in reality. It is like playing chess with different time modes. and different arrangement of the pieces at the start of the game.

[MyBrainItches]

i could have started a new thread for this link, but im too lazy to do so....

check out this guy's (white gi) game...fantastic ankle picks ...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aCRHM1vP7VY