Jimmy Pedro Disses BJJ

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November 20, 2009, 11:07:47 PM

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[MyBrainItches]

so coop i guess what youre saying is that, from you own personal experience, that judo played under match like conditions is no harder on your wind than your bjj matches/training.

no one here said that there arent bjj guys out there that train hard.  i run conditioning/drills classes for my students and i also tend to be a little sadistic about it because i dont want them to get tired.  however, i also know that what i do is not the norm for the bjj schools around town.

i roll my time limit at bjj tournies w/ little difficulty.  i train/teach bjj roughly 3 times/week.  i train judo once a week.  last week i did one 3 min rd w/ one of our short, stumpy bb at judo and my lungs were burning more than i had ever felt them burn before.  there were basically 2 takedown attempts in those 3 mins, the rest was gripping and moving around the mat.  i realized right then that i was in no shape at all to try to compete in a judo match.  however, if there was a bjj tourney tomorrow i would have no doubt that i could register and compete w/o having to worry about my wind.

the fact is judo is much harder on your body given the repeated throws and it happens at a much faster pace than your typical BJJ match (no gi is a different story).

[AgentCooper]

so coop i guess what youre saying is that, from you own personal experience, that judo played under match like conditions is no harder on your wind than your bjj matches/training.

No that's not what I'm saying...maybe I wasn't clear.

My point is:  A lot of Judo fans will say that BJJ guys aren't in as good shape as a Judo guy due to the type of training.  All I'm saying is that isn't entirely true.  There are PLENTY of guys that train at a super high level of conditioning in BJJ in order to compete well, and perform on a daily basis.  They can train just as hard as a Judo guy. Sure....those don't represent the majority of BJJ guys.  No doubt you can hide a lot easier in a BJJ class vs. a Judo class....im not arguing that point.

Just saying don't lump all the BJJ guys into one basket of sub par conditioning.  Same goes for Judo players....I find it hard to believe every one that trains Judo is on some superior level of conditioning compared to the BJJ guys.

Maybe you don't train as hard as you think.....maybe I don't either.....but I can say that a 3 min stand-up match isn't going to wear me down.  But is it "different" than being in a BJJ match?  Sure...depending on who your rolling with...and I 100% agree that stand-up training or Judo throws will take more energy out of you.....no doubt about it....I just don't like it when everyone "assumes" that a BJJ guy can't handle it due to mat training being more "lazy" for some reason.

[Truman Birch]

so coop i guess what youre saying is that, from you own personal experience, that judo played under match like conditions is no harder on your wind than your bjj matches/training.

No that's not what I'm saying...maybe I wasn't clear.

My point is:  A lot of Judo fans will say that BJJ guys aren't in as good shape as a Judo guy due to the type of training.  All I'm saying is that isn't entirely true.  There are PLENTY of guys that train at a super high level of conditioning in BJJ in order to compete well, and perform on a daily basis.  They can train just as hard as a Judo guy. Sure....those don't represent the majority of BJJ guys.  No doubt you can hide a lot easier in a BJJ class vs. a Judo class....im not arguing that point.

Just saying don't lump all the BJJ guys into one basket of sub par conditioning.  Same goes for Judo players....I find it hard to believe every one that trains Judo is on some superior level of conditioning compared to the BJJ guys.

Maybe you don't train as hard as you think.....maybe I don't either.....but I can say that a 3 min stand-up match isn't going to wear me down.  But is it "different" than being in a BJJ match?  Sure...depending on who your rolling with...and I 100% agree that stand-up training or Judo throws will take more energy out of you.....no doubt about it....I just don't like it when everyone "assumes" that a BJJ guy can't handle it due to mat training being more "lazy" for some reason.

Agent Cooper is wrong!

All Judo guys are golden gods with pure Spartan blood coursing throught their veins.  Just don't touch their faces.

[AgentCooper]

All Judo guys are golden gods with pure Spartan blood coursing throught their veins.  Just don't touch their faces.

LMAO!!!!   

[ArmHunter]

so coop i guess what youre saying is that, from you own personal experience, that judo played under match like conditions is no harder on your wind than your bjj matches/training.

No that's not what I'm saying...maybe I wasn't clear.

My point is:  A lot of Judo fans will say that BJJ guys aren't in as good shape as a Judo guy due to the type of training.  All I'm saying is that isn't entirely true.  There are PLENTY of guys that train at a super high level of conditioning in BJJ in order to compete well, and perform on a daily basis.  They can train just as hard as a Judo guy. Sure....those don't represent the majority of BJJ guys.  No doubt you can hide a lot easier in a BJJ class vs. a Judo class....im not arguing that point.

Just saying don't lump all the BJJ guys into one basket of sub par conditioning.  Same goes for Judo players....I find it hard to believe every one that trains Judo is on some superior level of conditioning compared to the BJJ guys.

Maybe you don't train as hard as you think.....maybe I don't either.....but I can say that a 3 min stand-up match isn't going to wear me down.  But is it "different" than being in a BJJ match?  Sure...depending on who your rolling with...and I 100% agree that stand-up training or Judo throws will take more energy out of you.....no doubt about it....I just don't like it when everyone "assumes" that a BJJ guy can't handle it due to mat training being more "lazy" for some reason.

Well, I am sorry, I would have to disagree..  I came from a BJJ school that was known for how hard we trained.  Ralph Gracies school back in the day was not at all an easy class.  (The Penn borthers, Cameron Earl, David, Crosley, Batata, and the list goes on)And yes we trained hard!  But the problem is, its still only mat work.  I am not dissing BJJ.  I love both sports equally.  But I have trained at the top schools in Japan in Judo, and you can even ask my brother, he has trained at the top schools in Brazil for BJJ.  Judo is a standing sport which demands more of your body.  To be in shape to put your body through that, is asking much much more then to be in top shape for BJJ.
Judo training is like this: at least for top competitors:  your 30 minute warm ups.. Free practice, which is the standing and throwing.  5 minute rounds for about 45 minutes switching and no resting, then another 45 minutes matwork 5 minute rounds. Then we would do cool down training, which still was harder then the warm up training.  Sometimes run, lift weights, climb a rope and do 100 push ups.
Now, there are some who do standing and BJJ and train very hard.  Most of them are MMA guys.  But if you have never trained at a top BJJ school and then a TOP Judo school, like San Jose State.. then you dont know how hard Top Judo really is.

Oh yea.. In Japan, I was at a Judo school that would train for 3 hours 2 times a day 6 days a week.  Also, went to a high school Judo class that was 4 hours..  The time was not bad, but try doubling the Standing time.. 5 minute round for 1.5 hours.. and because I was American, I could not rest a match...

Even if you did BJJ.. 5 minute rounds of matwork for 2 hours would not equal how tired you would get for a 1 hours 5 minute rounds of standing Judo... Sorry.  You can pick the top schools for both if you want.

[tightgame]

Coming from you 'Hunter, I would call this part of the conversation a wrap Not many folks with your credentials in Judo AND JJ to dispute ya.

[ArmHunter]

Thank you.. I am not trying to be the know it all.. Just trying to inform what I have been through. 

Also.. This whole thing is dumb.. This is better then that...  Just learn them both and you will have an awesome game!

[h2otiburon]

"your 30 minute warm ups.. Free practice, which is the standing and throwing.  5 minute rounds for about 45 minutes switching and no resting, then another 45 minutes matwork 5 minute rounds. Then we would do cool down training, which still was harder then the warm up training.  Sometimes run, lift weights, climb a rope and do 100 push ups."

This training is nothing out of this world, but I know tops most American BJJ schools and also most  American Judo
schools. Nothing out of this world  for other top level athletes in many sports including BJJ.

"Oh yea.. In Japan, I was at a Judo school that would train for 3 hours 2 times a day 6 days a week. "

This means that the Japanese had a program where people could live just to do Judo which is VERY NICE!   I would like to have the  stat of  how many hours per week or classes per week the average student attended.

I am not going to say that one is harder than the order because i think you can make something as hard as you want.
I have personally have been tortured in BJJ training many times to the point it would hurt when the gi rubbed against any part of my body.  I Have been starved.  I volunteer for this in one way or another i guess . I  bet they could do the same in Judo.

I have 6th Degree Black Belt who used to belong to the Olympic team in Romania that train with us and he gets more tired on the ground than on the feet. We go even on the feet, but his technique is finer as i have a couple of pounds over him, I do circuit training every week and i get as tired as he does.

It is just a matter of technique, and overall fitness. To many variables in order to make such a statement.  I will say this  and not to make a advertisement of this post. But I have had Lloyd Irvin and Julius Park run me through some crazy days of Bjj training and if you are looking for that kind of workout in a BJJ program. you ought to give them a try if you are in Maryland Area. Their websites are

Master Lloyd Irvin- http://ww.TrainLikeAMadman.com
Julius Park's 88 BJJ- http://www.88bjj.com

and if you are in the Florida Area check us out at http://www.ThirdLawBJJ.com. I just do to my students what they do to me. I have to release my anger....jk

check this video we call it the Helen Circuit at the beach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNEquMPQ_7c

We actually now have fixed it to full extension of the elbows which makes a big difference. Thats one of many circuits we do Usually we do 2-3 a week but sometimes we have warm ups that must would consider a harsh circuit of its own

[Alliance Soldier NYC]

Camarillo you do know that your the fuckin man right?

[SubmissionFytr]

It depends on who you are rolling w/ as far as all this getting tired stuff is concerned.  Your brother looked like he was getting all the workout he needed when he was in NYC rolling w/ Marcelo, I don't think it's fair to compare training w/ competitive Judo guys, and non-competitive BJJ guys as far as "tiring" goes. 

[Truman Birch]

It depends on who you are rolling w/ as far as all this getting tired stuff is concerned.  Your brother looked like he was getting all the workout he needed when he was in NYC rolling w/ Marcelo, I don't think it's fair to compare training w/ competitive Judo guys, and non-competitive BJJ guys as far as "tiring" goes. 

Good point.  All the judo examples seem to be "well when I was training at the olympic judo center . . . "

There are many judo guys stinking up YMCAs across the land who are definatley not representative of these elite judoka we keep hearing about.

[ArmHunter]

It depends on who you are rolling w/ as far as all this getting tired stuff is concerned.  Your brother looked like he was getting all the workout he needed when he was in NYC rolling w/ Marcelo, I don't think it's fair to compare training w/ competitive Judo guys, and non-competitive BJJ guys as far as "tiring" goes. 

Yes, but David has not trained hard in Judo in a very long time either....

And yes, I can train as hard as I want in any sport I want.. but BJJ is on the ground.. Judo in mostly standing.  Someone should study how much oxygen your body needs to train the standing part of Judo compaired to the amount you need when rolling.

[kebam]

It depends on who you are rolling w/ as far as all this getting tired stuff is concerned.  Your brother looked like he was getting all the workout he needed when he was in NYC rolling w/ Marcelo, I don't think it's fair to compare training w/ competitive Judo guys, and non-competitive BJJ guys as far as "tiring" goes. 

Yes, but David has not trained hard in Judo in a very long time either....

And yes, I can train as hard as I want in any sport I want.. but BJJ is on the ground.. Judo in mostly standing.  Someone should study how much oxygen your body needs to train the standing part of Judo compaired to the amount you need when rolling.

it would be hard to roll with the breathing tube but that would be an interesting study.  You would think they have done something along those lines for judo already as it's an olympic sport and gets money.

[Alliance Soldier NYC]

The most entertaining thing about this forum is that a person with actual worldly experience in a topic will come on and give their opinion and people without that experience will still feel inclined to try and dispute them on the subject. Never gets old.

[AgentCooper]

But if you have never trained at a top BJJ school and then a TOP Judo school, like San Jose State.. then you dont know how hard Top Judo really is.

Key point right there Dan.
 
I'm not arguing the point that top level Judo schools train extremely hard and in almost all cases harder than even the toughest BJJ school.

I'm just saying that it seems everyone thinks that all Judo schools train harder than BJJ schools....that's just simply not true.