Jimmy Pedro Disses BJJ

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March 11, 2010, 10:14:50 AM

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[KevinH]

 I don't really have a problem with what Pedro says.  I personally like BJJ more, but I think judo training builds attributes that are great from MMA or self defense. 

[papertrail]

Judo only exists because Kano wanted to get rid of the brutal bully image  that JiuJitsukas had . So he took the softer side of what he new and made a gentler sport to spread around the world.

I totally disagree. There are very few active Judokas  over 40's. Those violent throws wears a body down worse than newaza.

[hobbit]

Who has Pedro trained in MMA? He certainly hasn't competed in MMA. I'm a brown belt (sankyu) in judo and I like judo, but a lot of judo's problems is the "do" part. "Do" means the way, as in the way of life. Some judoka get so attached to judo as THE WAY that they end up looking down on every other way. They forget that not everyone is the same kind of person. Even in judo, different people have different tokuiwaza (favorite techniques). A taller person might prefer ashiwaza (mostly foot sweeps) while a shorter person might like koshiwaza (hip throws). So he should know that different people need different styles. Nobody is the same.

To suggest that only one way is the best way - as a way of life - is quite frankly against the spirit of judo. Namely it violates the principle of maximum efficiency with minimum effort. Even using his premises (that I also reject), which makes more sense: spending 5 years becoming proficient enough at throws to use them in an MMA fight with a possible shot at finishing the fight or 3 years to learn the "easier" sankaku jime (triangle choke) and absolutely finish fights. Obviously using his own statements, learning BJJ is more with the spirit of judo than learning judo itself!

It sounds like Pedro drank the Kool-Aid a little too much. Pity. The only absolute answer that I know of in martial arts is that personal preference is very important. Not everyone has the same attributes or the same strengths or weaknesses. Not every situation calls for the same type of thinking. So you shouldn't expect any one person, school, camp, style or philosophy to be absolutely correct. Bruce Lee said it best: be like water.

As an aside: I mean, beyond the GIA tapes, I find most BJJers more open to cross-training than most judoka. Saulo insists his students at his BJJ University do judo, for example. Pablo Popovitch has a wrestling class at his school IIRC. Many BJJ schools seem to add wrestling and judo programs to help their BJJ, but I hardly ever hear wrestling or judo schools adding BJJ to their curricula. We are an exception at Team Balance Pittsburgh - having been invited to share the facility with South Hills Judo. I wish more judoka in the States were open minded.

[goatfury]

Sport judo emphasizes finishing the guy really quickly on the ground.  This is good for street self-defense. 

Too bad if the sport judoka misses that quick armbar and ends up on his back in the street, he's balling up into the turtle position so the guy can stomp him in the back of the head.

[kosta]

i don't disagree w/ him.... he's proud, but he's not really all that wrong...

and judo is NOT soft... he did mention training in some hardcore classes.... and for a world/olympian that is hardcore....

[jason.KIMURA]

Dave Camarillo inspired me to cross-train judo. It's helped my jiu-jitsu game heaps.

[mikeffd]

I think you could make a valid argument that judo is superior to bjj for self defense. We spend so much time in BJJ learning aspects and positions that have almost no merit in a street fight.

In the end every person has a limited amount of time they can train. Thus, you have to make a compromise in regards to what aspect of fighting you want to get proficient in - Judo or BJJ, Striking or grappling, etc.

[hobbit]

I think you could make a valid argument that judo is superior to bjj for self defense. We spend so much time in BJJ learning aspects and positions that have almost no merit in a street fight.

In the end every person has a limited amount of time they can train. Thus, you have to make a compromise in regards to what aspect of fighting you want to get proficient in - Judo or BJJ, Striking or grappling, etc.

Um, huh? In BJJ, we spend most of our time on both top and bottom of full and half guard, side control, mount, back control, and takedowns. Aren't those positions of merit in a street fight? The exotic positions are not what we spend most time covering. I think judo and BJJ are both practically the same when training self defense. In both classes I learned most of the same techniques. They are a little different: we never covered standing up from the ground or using the guard to block punches in judo class, but we do practice more throw transitions from strikes and holds than in BJJ. However they are more the same than different.

[Oompa]

I think you could make a valid argument that judo is superior to bjj for self defense. We spend so much time in BJJ learning aspects and positions that have almost no merit in a street fight.

In the end every person has a limited amount of time they can train. Thus, you have to make a compromise in regards to what aspect of fighting you want to get proficient in - Judo or BJJ, Striking or grappling, etc.

If you have a limited time to train .. Judo is not the way to go . Judo  takes longer to be come proficient at than BJJ. and it's way hard on the body early on there is no JU in the beginig stages

[hobbit]

I think you could make a valid argument that judo is superior to bjj for self defense. We spend so much time in BJJ learning aspects and positions that have almost no merit in a street fight.

In the end every person has a limited amount of time they can train. Thus, you have to make a compromise in regards to what aspect of fighting you want to get proficient in - Judo or BJJ, Striking or grappling, etc.

If you have a limited time to train .. Judo is not the way to go . Judo  takes longer to be come proficient at than BJJ. and it's way hard on the body early on there is no JU in the beginig stages

Ironically, that's the same reason Kano advocated training nagewaza over newaza if you had limited time to train. I think the truth is that it depends on the person. People are talented in different areas.

[Twisted leg-locks]

People always forget that BJJ is more dominant than JUDO manly because it is just so much more fun to train. God could you imagine training judo as often as you train BJJ.  Judo guys are horribly closed minded when it comes to anything but Judo Ive seen it time and again and the first guy that would tell you that is Dave Camarillo. 

[PTCSD]

As I have posted this, I have seen many sides of the same view point. Its really funny how the bottom line is Judo should never ever ever be compared to BJJ. You never here Boxers compare themselves to Muy Thai etc. Really all jokes aside I have a stand up background and when i started BJJ it was a total shock to the body and brain. Point is nothing in the world prepares you for a street fight like BJJ. Key things I tell my students everyday I get that question. They ask me " How does this work / help in a real street fight" 1 cardio in BJJ is unmatched we train ti fight and fight and fight and prepare for the black belt level of a 10 min round, and many of those in the same day. 2 we roll/ spar every day with a live body that thinks. So in my mind and having been a bouncer and had street fights nothing works better than a nice rear naked choke. I dont know how Judo works on getting in on a punch but BJJ does just fine. Sorry Mr Pedro but your really off base with your thoughts.

[DeltaSigChi4]

WHO?

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[papertrail]

People always forget that BJJ is more dominant than JUDO manly because it is just so much more fun to train. God could you imagine training judo as often as you train BJJ.  Judo guys are horribly closed minded when it comes to anything but Judo Ive seen it time and again and the first guy that would tell you that is Dave Camarillo. 

The fact that there are judo clubs (practically free) in every cities contradicts that statement.

[ArmHunter]

Jimmy has some good points.  Judo does teach you in more areas then BJJ.  Judo has superb takedowns, and matwork.  But another important fact is Judo teaches you great balance, stamina, and aggression. 

If I had just learned JiuJitsu only, I would not have the speed I got from Judo or the incredible stamina it gave me.  At least back in the day...

Yes Judo is very technical, and it takes time to learn and at the same time, it also thrashes your body.  But think of it this way.  Everyone out there is learning to stuff a Wrestlers take down.  Hardly Anyone Knows how to stuff a Judo throw, which can not be done the same way.

I do understand what Jimmy is talking about... But he is not an MMA guy.  And why not just discuss how important it is to Cross Train?!  Jimmy has good matwork, but he should understand that 95% of the Judo guys out there DONT.  Unless you are near a top Judo School who is teaching the latest Matwork techniques, if not then you are definitely going to need jiujitsu for MMA.

Judo Alone is not the answer to all....  Judo + Jiujitsu you have now covered all your takedowns and matwork.  Add Boxing or Kickboxing and your done.

One more thing.. I’m curious as to how good Jimmy is without a gi.  Has he ever taken a No Gi Judo Class?  The throws are not exactly the same, the matwork is not exactly the same.