NAGA allows Heelhooks, Toeholds, Neck cranks, etc.. In Beginners-Opinions.

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[SanDaWang]

hate to say it, but there's a lot of truth to all those statements;

the most dangerous thing in martial arts; dumbasses and ego

knee bar different from arm-bar, kimura different from heel-hook?

And judo is ugly. Freestyle is ugly. Kids get hurt a lot less b/c they are rubbery. Adult newbs RARELY stick with Judo after their first injury, which INEVITABLY comes.

I have had most of my toes dislocated or the ligaments sprained more than once. The same with my fingers. Major contusions that took weeks to subside on all parts of my body, popped elbow more than once. In less than four years of training. This is just usual training s**t, this isn't acute injuries or accidents.

[CreamyTitties]

There is no way heel hooks should be allowed in beginners. Kenny you have to remember these guys barely know how to armbar from guard, and most don't even understand the mechanics of a shoulder lock.

[GQ NEWS]

GRAPPLERS QUEST IS 100% ON FOR NOVEMBER 8TH IN KISSIMMEE, FLORIDA!

CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS EMAIL WE GOT TODAY?

"We were at the NAGA tournament this weekend in BOCA raton and it was annouced by Kipp Kollar (President of NAGA) during his opening speech that your upcoming tournament in Kissimmee had been canceled. We didn't think that was true. However, it was said to everyone attending NAGA.

If it has been canceled please email me back to let me know.
If not we will be there! Just thought you should know."

==================================================

Grapplers Quest on Saturday, November 8th is 100% on.  We already have 497 pre-registered competitors and more rolling through every day.  Pre-Registration ends this coming Sunday, November 2nd @ 11:59 PM.

Pre-Register online at:
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[JJB]

A friend of mine from college had been 'training' a month or two (under some blue belt who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the wall) and decided to go to NAGA last summer in NJ. I went down to watch him even though I swore years ago to never go to one again. He enter the novice division and during his 1st match someone threw on a heel hook and gator rolled a blew his knee out. I was super pissed and said something to the ref, who informed me that it is perfectly legal in all divisions under their rules. Kipp was standing there like the smug c**t that he is and said to my friend, 'maybe next year' with a fucking smirk and then walked away. It was all I could do to not fucking wreck that piece of s**t. I asked my friend why he didn't tap as soon as the kid locked the heel hook on (even though I'm not sure he even had time) and he told me he had never seen or heard of one before so he didn't realize he was in any danger. Complete bullshit, imo. That has no place in novice/beginner/kids divisions.

[Joemoplata]

I remember watchin a match with Goatfury in which he slapped on the perfect heel hook and his opponent in refusing to tap popped his knee.  Goat stopped and let go saying that his knee had popped and the guy kept arguing that he was fine.  Goat pretty much refused to continue torquing the guy's knee and kept protesting to the ref that the guy's knee was popped.

This is what I would want and expect from someone going for that type of a submission on me at a tournament, and I cannot expect to get that level of knowledge and respect from someone in the beginner's divisions.

[JudoMonk]

Kenny,

Mostly I am just messing with you because you are WAY to sure you are right.  I was attempting to get you to realize that most of the guys arguing against novices using heel hooks have more experience than you.  I saw you posted on the Balance promotion thread – ask Ricky and Phil about Rob Monty, or for that matter just as for a generic white belt heel hook horror story.  You will get plenty.

Most of the problem I have with the "everything goes" crowd is that they want to reinvent the wheel.  Decades of BJJ teaching, training, and competitions have kind of evolved into the rules we have today.  I brought up slamming as an example of a technique that you might not approve of – that is how I feel about novice heel hooks.  Try to understand that.  Keep in mind that I have played in divisions with heel hooks and slamming allowed.  This discussion is about novice divisions.

You seem passionate about your training and opinion.  To be fair, you are more passionate than I am about mine.  I could care less about what other people do or think, I don’t teach my novices heel hooks because I don’t think novices are coordinated enough to control them, and I don’t think that they are sensitive enough to know when they are going to get injured.  Most of my students are professionals who have to go to work on Monday; they need to be able to walk.

I am sorry if I fired you up too much, my intent was to just poke you a little, not make you crazy.  Heel hooks are not allowed in my beginner classes, my students will not compete in divisions with heel hooks until they are intermediates.  I don’t allow heel hooks in my gi classes.  Basically they are too dangerous.

JM

PS – If Ricky of Phil say you are not a knucklehead, you are always welcome to train with me in Hawaii.  Aloha kid – rehab that knee.

[ScottS]

As stated, I competed in my first tournament with less than a month in.   Where is the layer of safety there? 

That's a good question.  Why did you put yourself in a situation to be injured when you weren't ready?
Is it the sport's fault you were competing while ignorant of all that is encompassed in the sport?
Do you feel it is the responsibility of the tournament promoters to protect its competitors from themselves or do you think competitors should be required to exhibit personal responsibility of their own choices?

[kebam]

As stated, I competed in my first tournament with less than a month in.   Where is the layer of safety there? 

That's a good question.  Why did you put yourself in a situation to be injured when you weren't ready?
Is it the sport's fault you were competing while ignorant of all that is encompassed in the sport?
Do you feel it is the responsibility of the tournament promoters to protect its competitors from themselves or do you think competitors should be required to exhibit personal responsibility of their own choices?

Why have refs?  Is that not a layer of safety for the competitors?

again, then, why have divisions?  Either you tap because someone already knows subs you haven't adequately trained for, or they out point you because they know techniques you don't.

That first tourny I knew enough to know what an americana and armbar where, but not much else.  That was also to Kenny's point about already knowing everything.  If someone grabbed at my ankles I would have thought it was some kind of sweep attempt or something.  If it would have been anything goes I wouldn't have entered.

In gi, the white belt is there for the white belt's protection as well as the person the white belt is rolling with.  should be the same for beginner level.  If they want anything goes enter a higher level.

[JordanEvolve]

Not a big deal IMO. If NAGAs were a bloodbath, that'd be one thing, but I haven't noticed any insane injury rate.

[kebam]

Not a big deal IMO. If NAGAs were a bloodbath, that'd be one thing, but I haven't noticed any insane injury rate.

I don't even compete that much,  I just like to argue.

[Kenny from MD]

Kenny,

Mostly I am just messing with you because you are WAY to sure you are right.  I was attempting to get you to realize that most of the guys arguing against novices using heel hooks have more experience than you.  I saw you posted on the Balance promotion thread – ask Ricky and Phil about Rob Monty, or for that matter just as for a generic white belt heel hook horror story.  You will get plenty.

Most of the problem I have with the "everything goes" crowd is that they want to reinvent the wheel.  Decades of BJJ teaching, training, and competitions have kind of evolved into the rules we have today.  I brought up slamming as an example of a technique that you might not approve of – that is how I feel about novice heel hooks.  Try to understand that.  Keep in mind that I have played in divisions with heel hooks and slamming allowed.  This discussion is about novice divisions.

You seem passionate about your training and opinion.  To be fair, you are more passionate than I am about mine.  I could care less about what other people do or think, I don’t teach my novices heel hooks because I don’t think novices are coordinated enough to control them, and I don’t think that they are sensitive enough to know when they are going to get injured.  Most of my students are professionals who have to go to work on Monday; they need to be able to walk.

I am sorry if I fired you up too much, my intent was to just poke you a little, not make you crazy.  Heel hooks are not allowed in my beginner classes, my students will not compete in divisions with heel hooks until they are intermediates.  I don’t allow heel hooks in my gi classes.  Basically they are too dangerous.

JM

PS – If Ricky of Phil say you are not a knucklehead, you are always welcome to train with me in Hawaii.  Aloha kid – rehab that knee.

I liked this response a lot better. The thing is, Im merely stating my personal opinion on the matter and in no way do I feel that it should be pushed upon anyone else. I DO realize that although I am smart and will tap long before my knee explodes, some people are.. well.... stupid. I have enough fun at BJJ tournaments as they are and pretty much went up a division to have the freedom to leglock how I please. I dont think this is such a pressing issue that any rules NEED to be changed, Im just stating preference is all. And I hope in getting fired up and stating my opinion I didnt come off as a know it all, or disrespectful or like I have more experience under my belt than I do. Ricky and Phil will tell you Im a sweetheart, and a cutie pie and I would love to roll with you in hawaii.

PS It is kind of funny that were arguing over safety issues of heel hooks while I am sitting here with my knee wrapped in 3 inches of gauze and hobbling around on crutches

[clinzy]

PS It is kind of funny that were arguing over safety issues of heel hooks while I am sitting here with my knee wrapped in 3 inches of gauze and hobbling around on crutches

The hilarity of this was not wasted on me.

[kebam]

Kenny, the only thing even remotely wrong with your point of view is confusing stupidity with lack of knowledge, imo.

Hope the leg heals up well.

[goatfury]

Kenny, the only thing even remotely wrong with your point of view is confusing stupidity with lack of knowledge, imo.

That, and he's vegan.

[Liberty Events]

I know that we have had feedback that our rules are too restrictive. We do not allow heelhooks or neckcranks even in advanced. Other than that I think we have normal rules.

btw CBJJ DOES allow straight ankle in white belts.