Topic: Are (a part of) the Gracies crazy?

[Slack Jaw]

In 5.5 years or so, we will begin to see the difference between a on-line black belt and a traditionally trained black belt, if the Gracies don't hold up these on-line students to the highest of standards.  That is if the on-liners get on the mat.  

[Blown383]

They posted the test of the first dude to get his blue belt from them here: https://www.gracieuniversity.com/LC/test_tips.aspx?c=63QJ4TGT7X&n=28

I like the shopping page.  You can ad moves to your cart for $8.00 each. 

Wonder how much a BB costs?

Getting your blue belt costs $229(they have a package deal of all 36 lessons for 144 + 85 testing fee). I'm guessing that as you move up in belts you will need to learn more techniques(and testing fee will probably be higher). So You're probably looking at a minimum of 900 bucks.

Honestly the most disappointing part is the video of a test they showed. Ryron and Rener are obviously very good teachers and the interface is good, so you probably should be able to learn to effectively apply the techniques under duress, however the test(which the Gracie University guys call nearly flawless) doesn't show that at all.

Geez....the test was a little goofy and resembled one step sparring from Tae Kwon Do and why oh why did it have to be a Vietnamese guy??!?  If Rener believes that Mr. John Nguyen is indeed a blue belt then so be it.  He has way more authority than I do.  I just hope that John Nguyen isn't teaching BJJ at that level.

-B

[J-Sho]

From another forum:

It is interesting that one of the reasons on the website for this course is that it will "honor the legacy of Grand Master Helio Gracie."  Intriguing given the long interview with Helio on the bonus tape from Gracie Jiu Jitsu Advanced.

Carlson Gracie Jr had an instructional series available at the time which offered certification in self-defence. It effectively sounds comparable to this new Gracie University course, using 1997 technology (i.e., tapes rather than a website). The advert included this statement:

Now, for a limited time only, Carlson Gracie, Jr., is accepting key students and instructors to learn and teach the fundamentals of Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. This new course, endorsed by the International Brazilian Jiu-jitsu Federation, teaches the Gracie Family's most life saving self-defense techniques and is designed for instructors as well as students of all levels. This course teaches dozens of important Gracie standup and ground fighting techniques and fully certifies you to teach these techniques for the Gracie Family. You can even have Carlson Gracie, Jr. personally test you or your students for further certification

Helio singled that out for attack in his GJJ Advanced interview:

Didn't you see Carlson's son is selling a certificate in the United States? To anyone who buys four or five of his tapes, he'll give a certificate as an instructor. What else do you want? Is there a bigger con artist than this? [...]

This kind of dishonesty I do not approve of. I already elected Rorion my representative in all areas, not only because he's my oldest son, but because he is the one who is more dedicated to jiu jitsu for what jiu jitsu is and the way I like it. [...]

Lets not confuse the student with those presumptuous ones who want to become teachers, because my own sons, who were born with me and since three years old have been doing jiu jitsu, only got their certificates after practicing their teaching skill for ten years.

Now an individual comes by my academy and spends five or six months or a year, and then leaves calling himself a jiu jitsu teacher. There's no way. Because for me, the instructor skill is not the learning of the movements, its in the philosophy behind the movements. In Brazil, unfortunately, it is very difficult to find someone with the morals I expect to become an instructor at my academy. That's the problem.

I'm guessing that the Gracie Academy's defence would be the same as their defence of Gracie Combatives: it isn't the same as 'sport jiu jitsu', as instead its a ranking in self-defence. I.e., this section of the website:

The Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy belt system is distinct from that of sport-oriented schools.  Although the belt colors are the same, the belt qualification requirements are very different.  Sport-oriented schools promote students based on their mastery of techniques that will lead to victory in a tournament setting.  In most cases, sport belt holders are very comfortable in sport jiu-jitsu matches and controlled sparring sessions.  However, when confronted by a larger and more athletic opponent who doesn’t play by the rules, they are often shaken by the unpredictable, violent attack and find themselves unable to respond. 

The Gracie Academy promotes students exclusively on their mastery of the techniques that will ensure their victory in a street fight.  The Academy rigorously tests each student’s skills and reflexes at each stage of their training.  The Gracie Academy Blue Belt Qualification Test, for example, requires students to demonstrate a high level of accuracy, efficiency, and reflexes in the execution of the most important street self-defense techniques.  Because we feel that “street readiness” is our first and foremost objective, most of the techniques that we teach at this level are “street only”.  As a result, a Gracie Academy “street” blue belt will win on the street but may not fare well in a sport jiu-jitsu match.  On the other hand, a sport jiu-jitsu blue belt will perform well on the mat, but may have difficulty dealing with unpredictable and chaotic circumstances of a real fight. 

The fact that it goes all the way up to black belt makes it rather more controversial than the already contentious 'blue belt' from Combatives.

[Ground_Meat]

You know, I always worried about that essential maritime martial arts demographic. With the rise in piracy the merchant marine really need a slick butterfly guard.

+1

Floating half guard is really important too.

HAHAHAHAHAAAA!

[Endezeit]

Because we feel that “street readiness” is our first and foremost objective, most of the techniques that we teach at this level are “street only”.  As a result, a Gracie Academy “street” blue belt will win on the street but may not fare well in a sport jiu-jitsu match.  On the other hand, a sport jiu-jitsu blue belt will perform well on the mat, but may have difficulty dealing with unpredictable and chaotic circumstances of a real fight. 

Man, I was only doing BJJ to get my street cred up and now I find out I have to buy DVDs/web videos to actually get in with the cool crowd?

[felipe_r]

They begin with "To honor the legacy of Grand Master Helio Gracie..." 

This reminds me of the Godfather 2 when michael waited for his mom to die before offing Fredo for betraying him.  he didnt want to break his mom's heart.

I would pay to see someone with little or no bjj experience get an online blackbelt, then walk into a gracie academy wearing it and a gracie patch and proceed to get murdered by the blues and purples there.

how would a legit school like gracie tampa, for example, feel with someone walking around and sucking with this thing?  what if they started competing?  I cant help but feel this will bite them in the ass.

[paully1976]

it'd be cool if the belt test consisted of the teachers paying some "larger and more athletic" dudes to attack their student as he or she innocently walked down the street, and seeing how the student did. 

"Your belt test will take place sometime this month, somewhere in the city, at some time.  You will be evaluated on how you use the techniques learned from the tapes in a real life situation.  Be ready."

that'd be legit.

[AgentCooper]

"Your belt test will take place sometime this month, somewhere in the city, at some time.  You will be evaluated on how you use the techniques learned from the tapes in a real life situation.  Be ready."

that'd be legit.

That would be awesome.


Several years ago there was an auction on Ebay just like that.  Guy had an auction for "I'll kick your ass".  The "item" description was almost what you posted but with a twist.  You couldn't fight back..LOL.  He said the attack would come at anytime and any place....and if your wife was around he would kick her ass too.  It was hilarious.

[csmathog]

They begin with "To honor the legacy of Grand Master Helio Gracie..." 

This reminds me of the Godfather 2 when michael waited for his mom to die before offing Fredo for betraying him.  he didnt want to break his mom's heart.

I would pay to see someone with little or no bjj experience get an online blackbelt, then walk into a gracie academy wearing it and a gracie patch and proceed to get murdered by the blues and purples there.

how would a legit school like gracie tampa, for example, feel with someone walking around and sucking with this thing?  what if they started competing?  I cant help but feel this will bite them in the ass.

How do you know what it will take to get a black belt?  Blue belt is the easy one, only 36 movements to master.  Each stripe on any belt above blue will require 50 to 60 techniques, and I believe they also say to be promoted to black belt the online student must go to Torrance and complete a 5 day evaluation.  By the time someone is able to learn and execute 600 techniques they will not be a beginner for one and if they survive Ryron and Rener for 5 days they will be a legit Black belt or still a brown belt. JMHO
p.s.  I find your comment about the godfather a little distasteful.  Does your school have a picture of Helio Gracie anywhere?  If you do why is it there?

[paully1976]

"Your belt test will take place sometime this month, somewhere in the city, at some time.  You will be evaluated on how you use the techniques learned from the tapes in a real life situation.  Be ready."

that'd be legit.

That would be awesome.

Several years ago there was an auction on Ebay just like that.  Guy had an auction for "I'll kick your ass".  The "item" description was almost what you posted but with a twist.  You couldn't fight back..LOL.  He said the attack would come at anytime and any place....and if your wife was around he would kick her ass too.  It was hilarious.

that reminds me of some doctor who was arrested for posing as his ex-wife on a rape-fantasy website, where women tell dudes where theyll be and get "attacked" to satisfy their fetsih.  pretty fucked up.  ok, back to the discussion...

[Richard Cranium]

Living the $racie way

Yes, it's the $ and also their way of gaining control of greater market share by having as many people certified and teaching branded Gracie Jiu-jitsu vs generic Brazilian Jiu-jitsu.  You gotta love capitalism! 

I guess its called Gracie Kwon Do now.  Watch the tape!........Walk away.  I'll take My jits like I do my perscriptions.....Generic baby.  Do you know how pissed I would be if some dip s**t got promoted to BB before me from watching vids online, while I was busting my ass for 20 years at their school trying to get a bb.  thats just tarded.

[Warzone]

This new website seems highly disrespectful to anyone who has put in numerous years and effort in to training jiu-jitsu...especially under the 'gracie' name.   

[thebaadtouchh]

Living the $racie way

Yes, it's the $ and also their way of gaining control of greater market share by having as many people certified and teaching branded Gracie Jiu-jitsu vs generic Brazilian Jiu-jitsu.  You gotta love capitalism! 

I guess its called Gracie Kwon Do now.  Watch the tape!........Walk away.  I'll take My jits like I do my perscriptions.....Generic baby.  Do you know how pissed I would be if some dip s**t got promoted to BB before me from watching vids online, while I was busting my ass for 20 years at their school trying to get a bb.  thats just tarded.

I'm really looking forward to the day this happens! In about five years I would hopefully be a purple (But Im not very good so might not even be there) and if some online Blackbelt comes in I would be first in line to roll with them.

And probably get tapped out 83503458304983450349828423092384 times in the first five minutes.. but still!

[AgentCooper]

This new website seems highly disrespectful to anyone who has put in numerous years and effort in to training jiu-jitsu...especially under the 'gracie' name.  

So are we entering the "new era" of bjj?  Where there will be a distinct separation of "old schoolers" and "new schoolers"?

Kinda like Karate in the 80's.  All the Vietnam vets that came back in the 60's where rough and tough......started up little
"dojo's" and they where rough as hell. Beating the snot out of each other day to day.  Not really marketed for the masses
etc.  Old school for sure....1 generation types.  Then someone got the idea to water it down to grow their non-profitable
schools and the snow ball started.  

[turkey sandwich]

Has anyone considered the likelihood of McDojo folks using this certification to justify teaching BJJ?  If I missed a post where someone had mentioned this already, I apologize for the repetition.  I mean, it seems a purple belt can be gained in a pretty reasonable amount of time through the web page.  The problem, to me, comes when these folks try to open a school or set up a bjj program at a karate/TKD/etc school.